June 17, 2010 | By Maria J. Dass

FORMER  International Trade and Industry Ministry Tan Sri Rafidah Aziz detests the term bankrupt being used in reference to Malaysia, and says she has no doubt the country will be able to achieve developed nation status by 2020 despite the looming economic challenges ahead including subsidy cuts. However she tells theSun she is concerned that in the rat race towards this, the country and its youth may lose sight of the characteristics and values that that makes Malaysia what it is. In a recent interview, Rafidah, also gave her views on the issue of sports betting.

Q: What is your opinion of the recent warning by a cabinet minister that the country could become bankrupt by 2019 if certain fiscal measures like withdrawing subsidies are not taken now?

A: I’ve never associated Malaysia with the word “bankrupt” because we have moved so far ahead over the years. We have been grappling with the issue of subsidies for a long time; it is not new, but it all boils down to the question of timing – when it should be removed, because as you know, the public has never taken the removal of subsidies well. But please! Don’t use the word “bankrupt” because it gives outsiders a terrible perception and this might deter people from even looking at Malaysia. Everybody knows that a country that is heavy on dole or subsidies will have a problem with debt and expenditure – that’s basic. This is why the time has come for Malaysia to ease out some of the subsidies, especially those that do not indicate the country’s or an industry’s competitiveness.

Q: Are you confident Malaysia will achieve developed nation status with all these challenges ahead?
A: Yes, I’m confident that we will achieve developed status – but with a proviso – that Malaysia reaches developed nation status by 2020 in its own mould. I worry about this because when we conceived Vision 2020 it took into account a multiracial, heterogeneous but united Malaysia. I am concerned that in the race to be developed, the young may forget and leave behind Malaysian roots and values such as respect for one another; this is something we have to look at.

OUTSPOKEN YOUTH

Q: You said young Malaysians must learn to be patient and not bad-mouth current leaders too much as they will inherit everything someday. You also said you never questioned your seniors and were always in awe of them.

A: You see, during our time we took on challenges and looked at it as a learning process; we did not go around bad-mouthing anyone. Tunku Abdul Rahman, Tun Sambanthan and Tun Tan Siew Sin were among those who helped win Malay-sia’s independence. These are leaders I mingled with when I was in my 20s.

Q: Would you have done things differently?

A: No, because most of the time, the decisions they made were in the best interests of the country and people of that period. If they did not do some things, the repercussions would have been different. Look at how they dealt with May 13, Mageran (Majlis Gerakan Negara – the administration body set up after the May 13, 1969 riots) and emergency rule. They put measures in place to restore democracy, prevent mindless deaths and returned order. This should come to mind when you talk about democracy – a time when people are calm, not afraid to go out and not curtailed by curfews.

But youth today have different concerns, like plugging leakages or extravagant spending by some government officials that is bleeding the country’s resources.

Sometimes they forget that it is this so-called extravagance that has brought this country to what it is today; that enabled them to get all the facilities they enjoy. If we did not build all these schools and world-class highways, these kids would not be able to enjoy the benefits. They will not be able to have things such as the multimedia super corridor, ICT and good global connectivity.

I don’t think they would have been on par with other youth in the world if they did not enjoy these privileges. The things we have spent on are things they can feel proud about when they are comparing notes with those from other countries.

But now that they are on par, they should not look at it as extravagance. Your mother could have bought second hand clothes for you, but she did not, you enjoyed it, but now when it’s your turn, you in turn talk about extravagance.

Q: What about the leakages, money wasted that could have been channelled to better use for the country?

A: Leakages. This has been going on from time immemorial. When I was deputy minister of finance, we had people bidding to supply food for the armed forces. I was chairman of the tender committee and I have investigated instances when they had manipulated costs.
I remember once Maggi Mee was supplied at RM4 a packet. This is not new. In every generation, there will be a set of people who squeeze blood out of stone.

Q: How do you curb that?

A: It has to do with values and principles, the kind we inculcate in every generation. So, the young of today, do not be too arrogant! There will be those amongst them who will be the same kind of rogues when the time comes. Please! During my time,there were rogues like that; in my predecessors’ time there were rogues like that; because there are many black sheep in the community who will want to cheat the government…

Q: Are there many black sheep?

A: Not necessarily, one black sheep is bad enough. But the frustrations of the young are probably because despite exposures, nothing seems to be done about it.
I tell people if you have come across things that are untoward – report it. But how many report? They talk about it, but how many come forward? They don’t want to get involved!

Q: But when they do report to the authorities concerned, they are probably doubtful of action. Do you think that anything comes out of it (reporting abuse)?

A: Yes, but you must report with details, not surat layang> or on Facebook and Twitter. No! That’s not the way. Make a formal report as a public citizen. You don’t need ombudsmen. You can report to the complaints bureau, you can even report direct to PM (Prime Minister). Do these people do it?

I do. If I come across something that somebody tells me, I report it- and it gets done. Of course it gets done, because the authorities concerned are informed about it. If they don’t know about it, how do they do it? But I don’t go and report this to the papers.

Q: Let’s take for instance the PKFZ (Port Klang Free Trade Zone) issue…

A: Wait…! Not yet, it has to go through the processes, not today, not tomorrow, let’s wait till everything is out. Let’s be fair to those who are doing the investigations; I wouldn’t hurry them. Let them do a thorough job and let those who are involved pay for it. Whatever the case, not just PKFZ, let the investigations be done thoroughly, not in haste.

SPORTS BETTING

Q: Recently there has been a lot of opposition by Pakatan Rakyat states towards sorts betting. What is your take on this?

A: The social ills and spin-off of untoward activities from illegal gambling and betting operations should be of more concern than the effects of regulated sports betting. Nobody should make sports betting a political issue because illegal gambling has always been a problem in this country – it goes back to as far as 40 years ago- and is almost a community culture.

It is difficult to curb because if you say no gambling at all, this will give rise to illegal gambling activities. So the only way to keep it in check, is to regulate it and make it transparent – meaning you know who gambles, and what the rules are. This way, we can curb the involvement of loan sharks, underworld organisations and unsavoury things tied up with gambling coming on board. The workings of the syndicates are familiar as it happens all over the world.

Q: What about concerns about the social repercussions caused by betting activities?

A: People who want to gamble will find ways to do so and if there are no legal avenues they will look for illegal ones. When an outlet is legal there will be restrictions like closing hours, maybe betting ceilings, and even requirements that they put up signs to warn patrons to be cautious when betting and so on, but if they resort to illegal outfits then there is a higher possibility of them getting involved with loan sharks and alongs because there is no one regulating the activities of the shady outlets,” she said.

Q: How do we deal with the black economy that is part and parcel of the illegal betting industry? Is it viable economically to legalise betting?

A: We do not know what kind of offers are made at the illegal outlets – a minimum betting limit? Credit facilities with high interests provided? Maybe there is a clause that the winner only gets 10% of the winnings?

So if they (illegal outlets) do not honour their end of the deal what are you going to do? Complain to the government?

These are reasons why there is a higher possibility of people getting in trouble if illegal betting thrives, and if they get into trouble, they have nowhere to go because no one is supposed to know, it is a very dangerous game. The extent of illegal betting is huge.

Allowing legal betting means that the government has some control over the situation, so if there is any abuse, the government has an option to withdraw the licence, or the option of penalties.

Q: What about religious sensitivities?

A: Muslims should not be bothered to debate on it. You know why? Because Muslims are not supposed to gamble – period. Also the proceeds from illegal gambling does not go to the government coffers per se but to communities who are in need via social welfare – it does not go towards the building of mosques, churches or temples.

Q: Pakatan Rakyat state governments have banned sports betting in premises in the state. What are the repercussions?

A: I don’t know why they have done that because maybe they forget that people will then resort to other forms of betting, including private arrangements with illegal betting outlets and there is betting over the internet too – that’s the problem – because you can’t control something when you can’t see where the premises are. To me it is better to have a visible regulated outlet. It’s the same as the sale of liquor. We can ban it completely, but then you will have all kinds of liquor coming in through the black-market, and there are no means of ensuring that these are safe for consumption and so on. But we have licensed outlets to sell this, so we can monitor them and ensure that they comply with the regulations.

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